Goofy: We'll spend some real quality time together.
Max: I think I'm going to be sick.
Jono: All of the cues are there and Goofy's not attuned to them.
Jono: He deeply cares about his son, but how he's going about it is very self-absorbed.
Goofy: Ayuk. Say hi, Max.
Jono: Am I listening to what they're passionate about? Alan: Yep.
Jono: Do I care about what they care about, because I care about them.
Max: It's only Powerline, Dad, the biggest rock star on the planet.
Jono: And Max, at this point, he's just lashing out in anger.
Max: Jimmy this dumb car and drive a million miles away and see some stupid rat show!
Jono: And part of the reason why it's so painful is because the love runs so deep.
Max: I got my own life now!
Goofy: I know that! I just wanted to be part of it.
Jono: How was Max conceived?
We don't know anything about the sexual activity of Goofy Goofster.
Jono: Hello and welcome to Cinema Therapy.
I'm Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist. And HEY THERE, MAXIE!
Alan: I'm Alan Seawright, a professional filmmaker who needs therapy because AYUK.
Jono: All right. We're going to be doing A Goofy Movie.
This is so formative for so many of you.
And what's weird is we were, like, later end of teenagers when this came out.
My friends and I still loved it.
Alan: I somehow missed it. I never saw it until I was an adult when I had kids.
Jono: Yeah. So we're going to be exploring family dynamics between the father and the son,
and how to reconcile when it feels like bridges have been burned in your relationship.
Alan: Are we also going to talk about, how between Roxanne and Nala,
I thought I might be a furry for a hot second there?
Jono: Exclusively on Patreon. Not suitable for YouTube.
Alan: We'd get demonetized.
Jono: But, listen, at the same time I get it because look at how they animate her.
Alan: I'm not wrong.
Jono: Yep, kids movies were different back in the day.
Laying on her side, looking at him all longingly.
Roxanne: [gasps]
Max: What's wrong?
Jono: Okay, straight up though, that was my stepson from the age of 13 to 17,
Jono: before his head grew into his teeth. Alan: Oh, yeah.
Jono: He looks great now.
Alan: Yeah, he had an awkward phase. That was... awkward.
Roxanne: [screams]
Alan: The nightmare of turning into your parents,
I don't think, has ever been put on screen in as funny and effective a way as that.
Alan: It's just turning the Goofy laugh into a horror thing. Jono: Uh-huh.
Alan: Priceless.
Goofy: The demons taught me to.
Jono: I'm a big fan of the immediate shift in lighting when she leans in to kiss him and it goes from, like...
Alan: It's all dark blue and there's thorns behind her all of a sudden. Yeah.
Jono: The natural development of a child into an adult is you get to a place where you want differentiation, right?
Where I'm going to be my own person. I'm going to make my own decisions. I'm going to think for myself.
And in order to do that, I have to get some distance from my parents. That's normal.
Not everybody goes through that. I was one of those weird teenagers
who was close to his parents all through high school, and people gave me crap for it.
Alan: Jono was weird. Jono: I still am.
Jono: But it is absolutely normal.
And in cases where your parents are abusive or negligent, you know,
it's perfectly natural to say, I am not going to live my life that way.
And if I have kids, I'm not going to treat them that way.
But even in healthy family relationships. Goofy is a loving father.
Jono: It is a natural part of the development... Alan: Yes.
Jono: ...to be a little afraid of being like your parents because you so madly want to be your own thing.
And like a lot of great movies, this film starts with its thesis statement.
It starts with Max is afraid of becoming his dad, to, by the end, he's like, I'm totally cool with that.
Alan: Yep. Jono: Right?
Alan: I think using GPS would have eliminated a bunch of issues for Goofy and Max.
Jono: I'm pretty sure this movie came out before most people had GPS.
Alan: And do you think Goofy could have even figured out how to use one?
Jono: Definitely not. But he could have taken the How Technology Works course from Brilliant.
Alan: Brilliant!
Jono: It covers how GPS and other technology can be used to pinpoint your location.
Alan: I still think that would be a little bit beyond Goofy's level.
Jono: Today's episode is sponsored by Brilliant.
Alan: Brilliant!
Jono: Gosh...
Alan: Brilliant...
Jono: Brilliant!
Alan: ...is where you learn by doing with thousands of interactive lessons in math,
data analysis, programing, and AI.
Jono: Each lesson has tons of hands-on problem solving to help you play with concepts
and really build an understanding.
Alan: This hands-on approach is the most effective way to learn.
Jono: That's why it's called Brilliant.
Alan: Brilliant!
And it helps you build problem solving skills and develop a powerful daily learning habit.
Jono: You know I'm a big fan of building positive habits.
Alan: I do know that.
Jono: And of self improvement.
And this is something that you can do to learn a little bit every day.
Alan: They've got a bunch of really awesome lessons.
I'm trying to teach myself programing and uh, I've been kind of plowing through the basic logic course.
I took some programing back in high school, but that was 400,000 years ago.
This is a helpful refresher.
Jono: To try everything Brilliant...
Alan: Brilliant!
Jono: ...has to offer for a free 30 days, visit Brilliant-- Alan: Brilliant.
Jono: Will you stop? Alan: Okay....
Jono: Visit brilliant.org/CinemaTherapy
Alan: ...brilliant
Jono: Or click on the link in the description.
You'll also get 20% off an annual premium subscription.
Fine, you can do it again.
Alan: It's great.
Jono: No. It's Brilliant.
Goofy: Are you okay, Maxie?
Jono: He says we're going on a... Goofy: That's right. A vacation, son!
We'll spend some real quality time together.
Max: I think I'm going to be sick.
Goofy: Hey, got a present for you.
Max: No, dad, stop! I can't go with you. What are you doing?
Goofy: You look just like I did at your age.
Max: Please, don't say that, Dad.
Goofy: Wait. I saved the best for last. Ayuk.
It's been handed down from Goof to Goof to Goof.
And now it's yours, son.
Max: A stick. Goofy: No, silly.
Alan: I never knew until this movie that Goofy's name was Goofy Goof.
Jono: Uh huh. Apparently.
Alan: His last name is Goof.
Goofy: Just like my dad and me did.
Two best buddies fishing on Lake Destiny.
Away from it all.
Max: I don't want to be "away" from it all, Dad. I like "it all".
Goofy: Hey, look, Maxie. We're using the same map.
Jono: Max is finally starting to fit in with his peers. Got the attention of a girl that he likes.
Goofy: ...same sites.
Max: But that trip would take weeks, Dad!
Goofy: Exactly! Getting there is half the fun.
Max: Put the map away, Dad.
Alan: Also learned from that map that the goof family lives in Ohio. Jono: All right
Goofy: ...and our future. What the map says, Max, we will follow.
Max: That's very mystical and everything, Dad.
But, uh, seriously, there's this party I have to go to, see?
Max: And there's this girl... Goofy: There'll be plenty of time for parties when you're older, Maxie.
Why, when I was your age, I'd never even been invited to a party. Look at me now.
Max: Great, Dad.
Goofy: Hop in, Maxie.
Max: No.
Goofy: All right, then.
I guess I'll just have to go all alone, that's all.
Just sit in the boat all alone.
Jono: I mean, manipulative as hell, but very funny.
Goofy: Talk to myself... all alone.
Max: I guess so.
Goofy: Oh, come on. Hop in! Max: No, Dad.
Goofy: Just hop right in there. Max: No.
Goofy: Come on, Maxie, go for it.
Max: Agh! No!
Goofy: Let's buckle you up.
Jono: We're gonna talk about the context of this in just a minute. But... Alan: Yeah.
Jono: He is bulldozing his son. Alan: 100%.
Goofy: Set for adventure, Maxie? Max: Why are you doing this to me, Dad?
Goofy: Because I don't want you to end up in the electric chair.
Max: Electric chair? What are you--
Goofy: I'm not giving up on you, son. Together, we're gonna work this out.
Max: Work this out? But, Dad...
Goofy: No buts about it, Maxie boy. Your old pop knows best. Max: But...
Jono: Okay...
Goofy: Goodbye, house. Goodbye, mailbox.
Goodbye pile of broken wood.
Max: Goodbye, hopes. Goodbye, dreams. Goodbye, Roxanne.
Alan: Just more Goofy, please.
I love Goofy. Like, it's such a broad character and you could do so much with it.
Jono: Yeah, but here's the thing.
You take any character and you pair them with the right writer, the right director,
and the right story, and suddenly you've got magic.
But Goofy is afraid. Principal has told him, Your son was rebelling.
Principal overreacted because the principal is a narcissistic authoritarian.
And Goofy just listened to that and just ran with it. And Goofy is now...
Jono: Goofy's running on fear. Alan: Yeah.
Jono: He hasn't even bothered to hear Max's side of the story of what happened at school.
Uh, why Max got in trouble? What was going on? What was he thinking? What was he trying to accomplish?
Jono: Because Goofy could realize, Hey, I'm worked up. I'm scared. Alan: Yeah.
Jono: I'm probably not thinking clearly.
So I'm going to regulate my physiological response here, soothe myself, calm down,
and then have a conversation with my son.
Max, principal called, this is what he says. What's your side of things?
Tell me what you were thinking and feeling. What were you trying to do?
And Max would say, I imitated Powerline because I was trying to impress a girl.
Alan: It worked, Dad.
Jono: And it totally worked. And we're going to go... Alan: We go on a date.
Jono: Yeah, I've got a date. And Goofy could say, Well, that's great, Maxie, I never had a date at your age.
Did goofy ever had a date? How was Max conceived?
We don't know anything about the sexual activity of Goofy Goofster.
[crickets]
Jono: Probably for the best. Alan: Do we want to know anything about it?
Oh, no, no. That's not a question I need answered.
Jono: And Max could tell him I've got a date,
and his dad could say, Hey, I'm really happy for you and tell me about this girl.
And then at a certain point, address the behavior itself. And then they could have been fine.
But Goofy's running on fear, and Max doesn't talk to his dad,
because his dad is showing that he's not willing to listen. He tries.
Alan: This, to me, tells me that Max has tried talking to his dad before and it never worked. Jono: Yeah.
Alan: And so he's done it. He's not even trying right now because he's like, Well, Goofy's gonna goof. Jono: Yeah.
Alan: So I just have to...
Jono: And a lot of parents are pushy because they want the best and they care about their kids,
but they also don't trust their kids.
And it's a hard line to walk because, you know, their brains aren't fully developed.
They haven't had the life experiences yet.
So you can't just go carte blanche on trust like the parents in Easy A,
Jono: who I adore but we decided they could do a little more parenting. Alan: Yes.
Jono: Goofy's the other side of the spectrum and he's too controlling. And Max is just done.
Alan: Did you ever have this experience of your parents dragging you to the, like, worst roadside attraction?
Jono: Yeah, my dad was big on this sort of stuff. My mom wasn't
Alan: My dad was too. Man. Every historical marker between here and Nebraska I have seen.
Max: I'm trying to get away from you.
Jono: Dude, my dad reads every plaque he sees.
Alan: Yeah. You brought me to Possum World, dum dum.
Goofy: What's the matter? Max: Nothing. Let's just go.
Max: Come on!
Goofy: You dropped your hat.
Max: This is the stupidest vacation!
You drag me from home, you jam me in this dumb car,
then drive a million miles away and see some stupid rat show!
Call me when the trip's over.
Jono: Oh, the pathos of goofy wearing a possum hat and looking sad.
Alan: Just what an amazing character.
Jono: What is Goofy?
Is he a dog?
Alan: He's a dog,
Jono: But Pluto's a dog.
Alan: Pluto's also a dog, but Pluto's a dog dog. And Goofy is an anthropomorphic dog.
Jono: In the same universe.
Alan: Yeah.
Jono: All right.
Alan: [Beep] you, science.
Watch your profanity.
Jono: Goofy has not been paying attention to his son's cues. Alan: Right.
Jono: That's why when he goes, What did I do?, his son has been letting him know passive aggressively
because he can't speak directly to his father.
But all of the cues are there and Goofy's not attuned to them.
He deeply cares about his son, but how he's going about it is very self-absorbed,
and something that I relate to, a parenting weakness of mine that I share with goofy is
I get so excited about the things that I love, or that I love doing with my dad,
that I want to share that with my kids.
Jono: And that in and of itself is not bad. Alan: Right.
Jono: The issue is, Am I listening to what they're passionate about? Alan: Yep.
Jono: Do I care about what they care about because I care about them?
And when I say this is a weakness of mine, it's more of a...
Jono: It's more of a it could be a trouble spot if I'm not being mindful. Alan: Yeah.
Jono: And at this point I am very mindful.
I'm very mindful to say, Okay, this is what they're into. Doesn't interest me as a 42 year old man.
But, you know, what does interest me? Connecting with this kid. So...
Alan: So I'm gonna learn so damn much about Minecraft. Jono: Yeah.
Alan: No idea how much I know about Minecraft. Holy [beep].
Jono: And Max, for his part, I understand, like you're saying, why he's given up,
but at this point he's just lashing out in anger.
And this is a good time to say, Dad, here's why I'm angry, here's what's going on.
Because, at least now, Goofy seems willing to listen and Max just doesn't care anymore.
Alan: Yeah, he's over it.
Alan: Goofy is so honed in on what he wants to do, he's actually surprised that Max is upset. Jono: Yeah.
Alan: It's a beautifully animated scene and beautifully performed scene of him being shocked,
Alan: and then, like, trying to figure out and pivot to like, Oh, how can I fix this? Jono: Yeah.
Alan: When it's a complete surprise to him that his son doesn't want to be at Possum World.
Mordachai: Hey, Lester. Ready for yodeling?
Jono: I have taken my children to America's largest pistachio.
So there's that.
Alan: I don't think that I've done... You know, I have taken them to Eddie World.
Are you familiar with Eddie World?
Alan: Eddie World is a truck stop in between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Jono: Okay.
Alan: It's just in the middle of effing nowhere.
Like it's the worst part of, like, the California desert.
It's kind of like a, uh. Have you ever been to a Bucky's?
You know what a Bucky's is? It's like crappy Bucky's.
Alan: So I took them there just like, as a goof. But they love it. Jono: Yeah.
Alan: Like, every time we go to LA, they're like, let's go to Eddie World.
And I'm like, do we have to?
Alan: Uh, for the young folks, he's cooking soup on a cigarette lighter.
Cars used to have cigarette lighters in them.
Max: Huh?
Goofy: Oh, don't tell me you don't remember "Hi, Dad" soup!
Oh, come on. Sure you do.
You used to spell things out using the letters like, uh, "Hi, Dad", or "Maxie" or...
Max: "Ambidextrous".
Goofy: Yeah! That's-- Huh?
No, little words like, uh...
Max: "Hasta la vista"?
Goofy: Like bye-bye.
Max: Or "I pledge allegiance"--
Goofy: Ayuk-ayuk. Or "I love you".
Jono: Because they've been fighting.
Max: Is it soup yet?
Goofy: Almost forgot.
Max: Whoa! Where'd you learn to do that?
Goofy: Your granddad taught me that when we went to Yosemite.
Max: You two did a lot together, huh?
Goofy: Yup.
Goofy: Max, you and I... Max: Dad, I'm sorry...
Goofy: Um, um... How's the soup?
Max: Not bad. Um, not-- Ahem.
Max: What?
Goofy: Nothing.
Jono: It's a sweet little scene. So bonding over past experiences, right? Alan: Yep.
Jono: We have a relationship. Trying to reconcile. Feels like the bridges have been burned.
And part of the reason why it's so painful is because the love runs so deep.
The most hurt we experience comes from the deepest relationships we have.
And in their case, when he says...
He talks about "I love you" as one of the things Max spelled out,
they both have instant regret, Goofy for how he's treated Max and vice versa.
We bond over past experiences, and then we also need to step into accountability,
which they both do simultaneously, speaking over each other.
And in real life, I love a good, sincere apology and a heart to heart.
In movies, I love it when they give you just enough that you know that's where they're going,
Jono: and then they're just like, That's all we needed. Alan: Yeah. Breeze past it.
Jono: Yeah. And so they're both saying it over each other and they both kind of hear it at the same time.
Jono: And it's like, yeah. Alan: Yeah.
Alan: It makes for, uh, better dramatic tension. Jono: Yeah.
And a and a release to that dramatic tension when you let the audience infer things.
It's more fun that way.
They take several steps into reconciliation,
Jono: and then they torpedo the whole damn thing with bad habits. Alan: Yes.
Jono: So Max has been lying to Goofy. Max: How about a song, Dad.
Jono: And Goofy found out that he's lying.
Max: A game? Yeah, yeah, a game. Okay, uh...
Jono: And he's mad cuz they were just getting along.
Max: Man? Man. Okay. Uh, Walt Disney.
Goofy: [grunts].
Jono: I'm pretty sure I've been forget-to-take-the-seatbelt-off angry before.
Jono: And Max knows what his dad...
He doesn't know that his dad found out he was lying, but he's like, Yeah, this is the only thing that would make him this upset.
Max: Dad... Alan: Yeah.
Max: Listen, about my directions...
Will you listen to me?
I gotta tell you something, Dad.
Goofy: Why bother? I'm probably too stupid to understand anyway, right?
Max: Forget it.
Jono: So Goofy's stonewalling. Alan: Yep.
Jono: Refusing to talk. Refusing to listen. And he's getting defensive.
So we're two out of four for the Four Horsemen.
John Gottman calls the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Max: The car! Goofy: What? Now you want to drive, too?
Max: No, Dad. The car. Look!
Goofy: The car!
What did you do now, Max?
Max: I didn't do anything, Dad. I only touched it.
Goofy: Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa!
Jono: I love the Western motifs there. Alan: Yeah.
Goofy: You locked it. Jono: Criticism.
Max: It's your door. You locked it.
Goofy: Well, you distracted me. Whoa, whoay!
Max: You should have put the brake on.
Goofy: Why don't you just put it on yourself?
Max: See? You ruin everything.
Jono: And then there's contempt, which is an attitude of superiority.
Goofy: W-Well, y-you r-ruined the vacation.
Max: I ruined it?!
Max: I never...
...wanted to go...
...on this stupid...
vacatioooooon!
Jono: It feels like they know they're in a cartoon, and they're not going to die
because they're continuing the argument instead of screaming.
Jono: So...
Alan: They know they're in a cartoon.
Jono: Look, right? They should be screaming because they're gonna die.
Alan: They should, like, you don't survive by bouncing across a bunch of ...
...in an AMC Gremlin.
Jono: You just don't.
Alan: That's not how it works.
Again, [beep] you, science.
Jono: So, Drs John and Julie Gottman...
Alan knows I love the Gottmans. Uh, they talk about the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse in a relationship.
These are four things that, if they go unchecked, means the relationship is in trouble.
And they're criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.
And we see all four of them in this scene, and I don't know that I've ever seen...
Except, okay, here's the only thing I know that matches it four for four in one scene,
is the argument in Marriage Story.
Alan: A Marriage Story, I was just gonna say,
I can't believe I have to know you FOREVER!
Oh, you're [beeping] insane. And you're [beeping] winning!
Max: Now look what you got us, Dad!
Goofy: Where I got us?!
Max: You should've let me stay at home.
Goofy: Why? So you'd end up in prison?
Max: Prison? What are you talking about?
Goofy: Your principal called me.
Max: It's not what you think!
Goofy: You even lied to me.
Max: I had to. You were ruining my life.
Goofy: I was only trying to take my boy fishing, okay?
Max: I'm not your little boy anymore, Dad. I've grown up.
I've got my own life now.
Goofy: I know that. I just wanted to be part of it.
You're my son Max.
No matter how big you get, you'll always be my son.
Jono: Brené Brown talks about the power of vulnerability. Unfortunately, for whatever reason,
we often only get vulnerable at the tail end of a shouting match
when we get all the anger out and then we get to the underlying emotion and then we express that.
Jono: When we finally get vulnerable at the end of a shouting match... Alan: Yeah.
Jono: ...sometimes everyone's got their anger out and they're in a better place to listen.
And I'm not someone who says that there's never growth or connection on the end of a good shouting match.
The issue is when we lead with anger, oftentimes by the time we get vulnerable,
the other person is unwilling to hear us 'cause they're too hurt from the anger we've been showing.
But there's a nice bit of vulnerability when Goofy finally says what he's been feeling the entire movie.
Is, I know you have your own life. I know you're growing up.
I just want to be a part of your life. And then they sit there and then they reconcile.
Jono: And it's like some weird, fun, down river song where they're... Alan: Oh, yeah.
Jono: And the only reason we're not showing the whole reconciliation here,
is because we'd get flagged for the song use, because it's the whole song, is their make up song.
But in that song we see... okay, I talk about the four horsemen.
There's criticism which is labeling, name calling, or attacking the entire person.
Contempt is an attitude of superiority.
Defensiveness is playing the victim or launching a counterattack,
and stonewalling is acting like you're not listening or being unwilling to respond.
And just like in one scene they show all four horsemen,
Jono: in the reconciliation song... Alan: They reconcile all four of them.
Jono: They reconcile all four, because criticism is resolved with gentle startup.
Instead of attacking a person, I can address a behavior while validating the worth of the person.
The cure for contempt is nurturing a positive relationship.
If you mostly just see the negative in another person, you start highlighting and seeing and pointing out the positive.
Defensiveness - the cure for that is accountability and taking ownership.
And stonewalling - is just opening up.
And they do all of that in this sweet, dopey, weird little song.
And then they go to the Powerline concert, right?
Alan: And Max crushes it. And Goofy is goofy.
And this would not happen at a rock concert.
You would get immediately tackled by big burly man dogs.
Jono: But in this universe, you can also skip your car across a bunch of boulders while falling down a cliff.
Jono: And it works in your favor. Alan: They're in a cartoon.
Jono: But Max comes to appreciate when he sees what Goofy is really all about.
He just saw this dork, and now he sees someone loving, someone who really cares about him,
and someone who's got his own pain, when he sees his dad as... a man dog, I guess,
because that's what we're running with when he sees the the man doggedy inside of his father...
Alan: Humanity inside of the dog.
That is his dad,
Jono: Or he sees the dog inside the man. Really, there's not a wrong answer.
When he sees this, he realizes that his dad's not only not so bad,
but he admires him and he wants to be like him.
And so the nightmare at the beginning is no longer a nightmare.
Alan: To your point, there's a great little bit where Max laughs like Goofy,
Alan: and Roxanne thinks it's cute. Jono: Yeah.
Alan: Because Roxanne hasn't heard it enough yet.
Jono: Oh my gosh, you're so dark and cynical.
And Goofy, for his part, sees the doggassity inside of his own son, where...
No, he saw his son as a troublemaker who is headed for the electric chair,
and now he sees him as a boy who likes a girl and just wants to be accepted by his peers.
And if he just listened in the first place with those enormous ears,
we would have missed out on this delightful movie.
Alan: So thank goodness they didn't.
Jono: So, until next time...
Alan: How many cups of sugar does it take to get to the moon?
Jono: Stand up till you notice me.
Internet Dads: And... watch movies.
Alan: Ayuk!
Jono: Ayuk!
Jono: Well, hey there, Patrons! We want to thank you for supporting our channel. Folks like...
Alan: Ariana Supaswud.
Jono: Are you not doing the Goofy... Okay, TinyDevil 45.
Alan: Tiffany Hsu.
Jono: Joshua Garza.
Alan: And Sebastien Monty.
Jono: Thank you, Monty, for not going the Full Monty.
We love you. Thanks for watching our show and supporting our channel.